Two dead plus an amputee in two months on Sydney beaches. What will it take before the authorities reject the green nonsense and control shark numbers?
thanks for your comment. You should definitely see Fred Pawle’s excellent documentary. He has interviewed the fishermen, and analysed some of the research behind the government’s bad policies. The problem with this issue is the same as with the covid debacle and the carbon nonsense. Shoddy research with wrong conclusions gets into the canon and bad policy is made as a result. We have to clean up academic research - the slide into sloppy standards is now a danger to us all.
Life isn't black and white - we had years of blanket shark protection and now we need some fishing. They aren't endangered, there are too many of them.
Thank you for raising this important issue. Spot on. There is this woke attitude out there, you hear from people that "it is the shark's territory and we humans should stay out of the water." This is incorrect. The coastlines have always been shared territory. Humans have as much rights to enter the water as sharks. We entered the coastal waters for millennia to gather food or for pleasure. In fact, humans use a tiny fraction of the ocean compared to sharks (probably less than 1%). There are huge coastal ocean territories around Australia alone for hundreds of thousands of sharks where no human lives or swims. Therefore, humans need to defend their access to the little space they use and kill all dangerous sharks in the area. And they must start now before more people get killed and disabled. Shark attacks have been building up for years now - it is obvious. The cull will come - earlier or later. Every politician or activist who wastes timee with useless woke measures is personally responsible for more dead children and people. The cull should have started years ago. Same with the saltwater crocodiles.
I understand the fear. Shark attacks are traumatic and highly publicised, but I have a couple points I would like to make.
Regarding your statement, “Have always been shared territory”, sharks have been around for over 450 million years. Homo sapiens? 0.3 million years. It was their home long before we arrived.
Regarding mass culling, there is evidence that large-scale shark killing doesn’t reduce long-term risk, and importantly it harms the broader ecosystem by removing apex predators. Removing sharks can destabilise food chains and harm fisheries and coastal health.
Globally, unprovoked shark fatalities are extremely rare each year, while humans already kill tens of millions of sharks annually.
You’re far more likely to die in a car crash than from a shark attack. We don’t respond by shutting down every car manufacturer.
I agree with the low probability. Absolutely. Yet, it still works on you rmind massively when you are fishing, swimming, or surfing in the ocean. It takes the joy away from hundreds of thousands of people every day.
The food chain problem is complex and can’t be meassured. Sharks only kill very few humans but millions of other fish. You could argue: Why is the sharks life more important than that of those other fish?
Either we intervene by fishing, or we don’t. Only protecting dangerous sharks makes no sense at all.
And humans kill millions of other fish, too, and not many care. But some do with sharks for some reasons. Why not protect all fish then? Because we want to eat fish.
I am not talking about extinguishing sharks. We never came close ever. As I said, humans use less than 1% of their territory. There are millions of sq km they can swim and breed and hundreds of thousands of uninhabited coastline on this planet.
I am talking of clearing the less than 1% of coastal waters around Australia where people swim, fish and surf. And killing only the less than 1% of sharks that actually attack humans (big whites, Bronze, bull, tiger shark and one or two others).
In an illusory ideal world, we live in total harmony with all creatures - but that is not real life reality. Life feeds on life, like it or not. It always has been and always will. It is a natural law. We kill and get killed.
Therefore, this discussion comes down to power. Who has more power? We do. So let’s kill the dangerous few sharks in populated areas before they kill more of us.
Yes it is rare, but if you are affected, it is a huge trauma for the family and community involved. We had six shark attacks in the past years in the small community I live in Austalia (Mid-North Coast NSW). A teenager lost his leg. His life is ruined. A Swiss tourist lost her life. Shark attacks are on the rise everywhere in Australia because we protect one of the most ruthless predators in the world. That is woke insanity imo.
Only people who actually go into the ocean should decide about sharks. People who don’t should just shut up. It is not their business. They watch nature shows on tv and think, “oh, there are poor sharks.”
Already there are marine parks where no fish and sharks can be killed. Let’s expand those. I am all for diversity and nature. But protect our populated beaches. We have a right to the ocean as much as any other species.
I do understand where you are coming from, I do. And I’m not saying this to be “woke” or trying to demonise anyone. But just hear me out.
Sharks consume millions of fish because prey species vastly outnumber apex predators in marine systems. That’s how trophic pyramids work, there are more prey, fewer predators. Sharks regulate abundant fish populations as part of normal ecosystem function.
Humans do also kill huge numbers of fish, I agree. The difference is extinction risk. About 37% of shark and ray species are threatened with extinction. Sharks grow slowly, mature late, and produce few offspring, which makes recovery from population decline extremely slow. Most commercial fish like tuna or salmon which are the kind we fish a lot for food, reproduce far more quickly and are biologically more resilient. It’s not caring less about other fish, rather focusing on who needs the attention.
Calling sharks “the most ruthless predators” is wild when looked at it statistically. Humans kill orders of magnitude more marine life, actually all life, than sharks ever kill people. Not just that but take humans out the equation, there are hundreds of other animals/ man made entities that kill human life a lot more than sharks.
Saying humans have equal rights to the ocean and using that as a basis for killing species in selected areas effectively asserts a greater right where convenient. I would argue that isn’t equal more like humans using the fact that we communicate the way we do to our advantage. Saying equal rights implies the sharks have as much right to be there as we do. If we had a right to the ocean ”as much as they do” it means they have an equal right to be there too.
Do bear in mind that I do say this knowing it is hard when it does occasionally happen, and I get that. But we should not be culling an animal because we want to be where they have existed for a very very long time.
You are right that people who use the ocean should have a say in how risk is managed, and do know, I’m one of those people too. I swim and surf, so I speak from that perspective.
It’s difficult, I know. But I think humans have gotten carried away with a power trip and unfortunately it’s going to end up with us flat on our face.
Being afraid of sharks isn’t a reason to disrupt entire ecosystems. Wanting to swim without risk is understandable, but it’s an emotional response, not a scientific justification for harming marine life.
I agree that humans are the most ruthless killers, above sharks, and yes, from a fairness perspective, sharks have the same right to be there as we do. But who said the world is fair? Sharks can’t vote. It comes back to who has more power, amongst humans, amongst fish, and among humans vs fish.
We also think and act as a species. That’s how species survive. Your own is values higher than those of another species. And that is natural.
Most people would sacrifice their dog before their children or another human being, providing they are sane and have a humane relationship to the world. I saw some nasty online comments from “shark lovers” after that Swiss girl was killed. I think these are troubled people who hate humanity because they hate themselves. If somebody values a shark’s life over a human life, something is wrong with your empathy and natural relationship to humanity imo.
That more and more people feel like that, especially young people, does not come as a surprise because the subtle political woke nudging in the last decade was: “Humans are bad. We destroy our planet. We are too many.” While part of that is true (not the bad thing), it is a toxic woke doom days message. And that feeds into the whole shark debate.
We don’t need to cull all dangerous sharks. We need to manage them so our species is protected. We don’t need to drive them to extinction; just keep them away from the small percentage of coastal area we use. There is enough coastline in Australia for sharks and humans.
While your car stats are correct we actually do shut down what causes those fatal crashes as much as we can. Cars don’t cause crashes. People do. Most crashes are caused by dangerous, stupid, or bad drivers, and the police are cracking down hard on them and is removing them from. But we can’t do that with sharks? Further, our own driving style can prevent a lot harm, so there is a sense of control. There is not when a 5 m white pointer charges at you.
thanks for your comment. You should definitely see Fred Pawle’s excellent documentary. He has interviewed the fishermen, and analysed some of the research behind the government’s bad policies. The problem with this issue is the same as with the covid debacle and the carbon nonsense. Shoddy research with wrong conclusions gets into the canon and bad policy is made as a result. We have to clean up academic research - the slide into sloppy standards is now a danger to us all.
Thanks may common sense prevail..
The policy and the answers of the interviewees are so moronic you'd think it was America. Australians seem to be becoming even dumber.
Totally
Yes, and yet they still seem to vote for the uniparty that refuses to fix anything. Pity help us all. Esperance. WA
Lots of people get run over by road vehicles. Ban road vehicles.
Life isn't black and white - we had years of blanket shark protection and now we need some fishing. They aren't endangered, there are too many of them.
They hav disappeared from around cape town.
Agreed!
Thank you for raising this important issue. Spot on. There is this woke attitude out there, you hear from people that "it is the shark's territory and we humans should stay out of the water." This is incorrect. The coastlines have always been shared territory. Humans have as much rights to enter the water as sharks. We entered the coastal waters for millennia to gather food or for pleasure. In fact, humans use a tiny fraction of the ocean compared to sharks (probably less than 1%). There are huge coastal ocean territories around Australia alone for hundreds of thousands of sharks where no human lives or swims. Therefore, humans need to defend their access to the little space they use and kill all dangerous sharks in the area. And they must start now before more people get killed and disabled. Shark attacks have been building up for years now - it is obvious. The cull will come - earlier or later. Every politician or activist who wastes timee with useless woke measures is personally responsible for more dead children and people. The cull should have started years ago. Same with the saltwater crocodiles.
Totally agree thanks for great comment and yes same is true for crocs. In the 80s sure they needed protection but not anymore
I understand the fear. Shark attacks are traumatic and highly publicised, but I have a couple points I would like to make.
Regarding your statement, “Have always been shared territory”, sharks have been around for over 450 million years. Homo sapiens? 0.3 million years. It was their home long before we arrived.
Regarding mass culling, there is evidence that large-scale shark killing doesn’t reduce long-term risk, and importantly it harms the broader ecosystem by removing apex predators. Removing sharks can destabilise food chains and harm fisheries and coastal health.
Globally, unprovoked shark fatalities are extremely rare each year, while humans already kill tens of millions of sharks annually.
You’re far more likely to die in a car crash than from a shark attack. We don’t respond by shutting down every car manufacturer.
I agree with the low probability. Absolutely. Yet, it still works on you rmind massively when you are fishing, swimming, or surfing in the ocean. It takes the joy away from hundreds of thousands of people every day.
The food chain problem is complex and can’t be meassured. Sharks only kill very few humans but millions of other fish. You could argue: Why is the sharks life more important than that of those other fish?
Either we intervene by fishing, or we don’t. Only protecting dangerous sharks makes no sense at all.
And humans kill millions of other fish, too, and not many care. But some do with sharks for some reasons. Why not protect all fish then? Because we want to eat fish.
I am not talking about extinguishing sharks. We never came close ever. As I said, humans use less than 1% of their territory. There are millions of sq km they can swim and breed and hundreds of thousands of uninhabited coastline on this planet.
I am talking of clearing the less than 1% of coastal waters around Australia where people swim, fish and surf. And killing only the less than 1% of sharks that actually attack humans (big whites, Bronze, bull, tiger shark and one or two others).
In an illusory ideal world, we live in total harmony with all creatures - but that is not real life reality. Life feeds on life, like it or not. It always has been and always will. It is a natural law. We kill and get killed.
Therefore, this discussion comes down to power. Who has more power? We do. So let’s kill the dangerous few sharks in populated areas before they kill more of us.
Yes it is rare, but if you are affected, it is a huge trauma for the family and community involved. We had six shark attacks in the past years in the small community I live in Austalia (Mid-North Coast NSW). A teenager lost his leg. His life is ruined. A Swiss tourist lost her life. Shark attacks are on the rise everywhere in Australia because we protect one of the most ruthless predators in the world. That is woke insanity imo.
Only people who actually go into the ocean should decide about sharks. People who don’t should just shut up. It is not their business. They watch nature shows on tv and think, “oh, there are poor sharks.”
Already there are marine parks where no fish and sharks can be killed. Let’s expand those. I am all for diversity and nature. But protect our populated beaches. We have a right to the ocean as much as any other species.
I do understand where you are coming from, I do. And I’m not saying this to be “woke” or trying to demonise anyone. But just hear me out.
Sharks consume millions of fish because prey species vastly outnumber apex predators in marine systems. That’s how trophic pyramids work, there are more prey, fewer predators. Sharks regulate abundant fish populations as part of normal ecosystem function.
Humans do also kill huge numbers of fish, I agree. The difference is extinction risk. About 37% of shark and ray species are threatened with extinction. Sharks grow slowly, mature late, and produce few offspring, which makes recovery from population decline extremely slow. Most commercial fish like tuna or salmon which are the kind we fish a lot for food, reproduce far more quickly and are biologically more resilient. It’s not caring less about other fish, rather focusing on who needs the attention.
Calling sharks “the most ruthless predators” is wild when looked at it statistically. Humans kill orders of magnitude more marine life, actually all life, than sharks ever kill people. Not just that but take humans out the equation, there are hundreds of other animals/ man made entities that kill human life a lot more than sharks.
Saying humans have equal rights to the ocean and using that as a basis for killing species in selected areas effectively asserts a greater right where convenient. I would argue that isn’t equal more like humans using the fact that we communicate the way we do to our advantage. Saying equal rights implies the sharks have as much right to be there as we do. If we had a right to the ocean ”as much as they do” it means they have an equal right to be there too.
Do bear in mind that I do say this knowing it is hard when it does occasionally happen, and I get that. But we should not be culling an animal because we want to be where they have existed for a very very long time.
You are right that people who use the ocean should have a say in how risk is managed, and do know, I’m one of those people too. I swim and surf, so I speak from that perspective.
It’s difficult, I know. But I think humans have gotten carried away with a power trip and unfortunately it’s going to end up with us flat on our face.
Being afraid of sharks isn’t a reason to disrupt entire ecosystems. Wanting to swim without risk is understandable, but it’s an emotional response, not a scientific justification for harming marine life.
I agree that humans are the most ruthless killers, above sharks, and yes, from a fairness perspective, sharks have the same right to be there as we do. But who said the world is fair? Sharks can’t vote. It comes back to who has more power, amongst humans, amongst fish, and among humans vs fish.
We also think and act as a species. That’s how species survive. Your own is values higher than those of another species. And that is natural.
Most people would sacrifice their dog before their children or another human being, providing they are sane and have a humane relationship to the world. I saw some nasty online comments from “shark lovers” after that Swiss girl was killed. I think these are troubled people who hate humanity because they hate themselves. If somebody values a shark’s life over a human life, something is wrong with your empathy and natural relationship to humanity imo.
That more and more people feel like that, especially young people, does not come as a surprise because the subtle political woke nudging in the last decade was: “Humans are bad. We destroy our planet. We are too many.” While part of that is true (not the bad thing), it is a toxic woke doom days message. And that feeds into the whole shark debate.
We don’t need to cull all dangerous sharks. We need to manage them so our species is protected. We don’t need to drive them to extinction; just keep them away from the small percentage of coastal area we use. There is enough coastline in Australia for sharks and humans.
While your car stats are correct we actually do shut down what causes those fatal crashes as much as we can. Cars don’t cause crashes. People do. Most crashes are caused by dangerous, stupid, or bad drivers, and the police are cracking down hard on them and is removing them from. But we can’t do that with sharks? Further, our own driving style can prevent a lot harm, so there is a sense of control. There is not when a 5 m white pointer charges at you.